Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 05:55:02 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #408 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 2 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 408 Today's Topics: Flame Derby quarter finals Guns for Space (2 msgs) New DC-1 reentry question Quaint US Archaisms (2 msgs) Questions about Titan IV and Ariane 5 Small Astronaut (was: Budget Astronaut) Space FAQ 05/15 - References Status of U.S./Soviet Cooperation Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Apr 93 15:35:56 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Flame Derby quarter finals Newsgroups: sci.space In 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: >Fred Responds; >>But I don't remember you being asked, Tommy (unless you changed your >>name to George when nobody was looking). Given what I've seen from >>you over the years, I think you're more a candidate than a voter. >Oh my God! I'm really sorry. I know how frowned upon it is to offer an >opinion on someone elses thread, especially one so serious as, uh, let >me look here, oh yeah, "Flame Derby". Please, Fred and everyone, accept >my humble apology for being so blatantly out of line. Well, son, if you want to jump into the middle of things you can hardly complain about being hit, now can you? >Happy now Fred? I hope so, since I'd like to help you keep your contentless, >personal, unfunny posts to a minimum, and apparently, I'm responsible for >this one. You got me, I overstepped bounds, but let's not rub my face in it, >OK? I've got my pride, too, so please let me off easy this time. You're still laboring under this silly "Tommy as the Centre of the Universe" idea that anyone needs your help, not to mention how you fool yourself about having these 'higher motives' when you decide to get into it. I think you need to examine your own motives on this one. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 1993 13:55:13 GMT From: CLAUDIO OLIVEIRA EGALON Subject: Guns for Space Newsgroups: sci.space Sometime ago, someone told me that NASA Johnson Space Center has a gun for launching projectiles at velocities of 7km/s (close to the scape velocity). I do not know whether it is true and I would like to know if someone in the NET could either confirm it or not. Thanks C.O.EGALON@LARC.NASA.GOV ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 10:56:58 GMT From: Pat Subject: Guns for Space Newsgroups: sci.space How much money is going into these programs? ROM?... They sound interesting, if we can get them on-line. Let's just not plan on using them for SSF's logistics runs. pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 16:17:23 GMT From: Dave Jones Subject: New DC-1 reentry question Newsgroups: sci.space James B. Reed (jbreed@doink.b23b.ingr.com) wrote: > I understand that the plans are for DC-1 to reenter nose > first as opposed to apollo-style base first. It seems > to me that an advantage to going base first is that the > occupants are on their back taking the g's the easiest > way possible (on their back with knees elevated). > Doesn't going nose first mean the occupants will be face > down? Is that going to cause problems? > Well, the shuttle comes in this way, or at least in a nose-up forward configuration. The likelihood is that DC-1 would be similarly configured: after all you do not want the minimum resistance attitude. In any case, designing seats that can be rotated to the best attitude for the occupants is a lot easier that making the rear of the ship do double duty as heat shield and exhaust outlet. -- ||Nothing can prepare you for the revelation ||"You have reached the phone ||that your favorite movie director is a dweeb.|| system of Muzak, Inc. ||---------------------------------------------|| While you wait you will hear ||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)--------|| live US Senate proceedings" ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 20:38:58 GMT From: Dave Jones Subject: Quaint US Archaisms Newsgroups: sci.space Mark Robert Thorson (mmm@cup.portal.com) wrote: > May I humbly point out that the English system has standard sizes in > an exponential distribution (1/2", 1/4", 1/8", etc.) while metric > sizes tend to be anything. An old American car can be serviced with > about 5 wrenches. A proper metric wrench set has lots of sizes, > typically 3 to 25 millimeters in increments of 1 mm. Ri-ight. And those 5/16", 7/32" etc. sockets are just for show. -- ||Nothing can prepare you for the revelation ||"You have reached the phone ||that your favorite movie director is a dweeb.|| system of Muzak, Inc. ||---------------------------------------------|| While you wait you will hear ||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)--------|| live US Senate proceedings" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 08:19:29 PST From: Mark Robert Thorson Subject: Quaint US Archaisms Newsgroups: sci.space May I humbly point out that the English system has standard sizes in an exponential distribution (1/2", 1/4", 1/8", etc.) while metric sizes tend to be anything. An old American car can be serviced with about 5 wrenches. A proper metric wrench set has lots of sizes, typically 3 to 25 millimeters in increments of 1 mm. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 16:58:15 GMT From: "Garret W. Gengler" Subject: Questions about Titan IV and Ariane 5 Newsgroups: sci.space Howdy Folks. I have several questions about the Titan IV-SRMU/Centaur and Ariane 5 launch vehicles. I'm having trouble obtaining information on the launch environment (temperature, pressure, load factors, etc.) and payload fairings for each of these. The best information I have is from Isakowitz (1991), but a few questions still remain. Perhaps someone has a new edition of that reference book. (it's AIAA published - International Reference Guide to Space Launch Systems) For the Ariane 5, I need the following information: o Maximum pressure change in the payload fairing launch o Temperature range in the payload fairing during launch o Maximum vibration frequency (equal to the minimum payload frequency) o Largest payload fairing dimensions (right now I have 4.57 m x 12 m cylindrical. I need to know if the tapered nose cone space can be used for payload.) For the Titan IV-SRMU/Centaur-g, I need: o Largest payload fairing dimensions (right now I have 4.572 m x 12.192 m excluding the Centaur. Can any of the nose cone area be used?) If anyone can supply any of this info, I'd be eternally grateful. Thanks, Garret Gengler g-gengler@uiuc.edu ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 11:43:23 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Small Astronaut (was: Budget Astronaut) Newsgroups: sci.space In article , sasbck@spain.unx.sas.com (Brenda Kalt) writes: > > I've wondered about this for a long time. For space missions lasting > months or years, wouldn't it be more efficient to use small astronauts? [good reasons deleted] > Large astronauts seem to come from (1) SF magazines that wanted heroic > types and (2) current pilot-training requirements, which evolved from > the military. Neither of those reasons is carved in stone. Well, the SF magazines were aware of this possibility. See Kornbluth and Pohl's *The Space Merchants*, written in the mid-Fifties, where the first man on Venus is a "little person." (Hey, what's the Politically Correct name for this, anyway?) I recently viewed *Project Moonbase*, the second SF movie Robert Heinlein worked on. Made around 1953, it is much cheesier, lower-budget, and less interesting than *Destination Moon*. The first pilot in space has been a woman, thanks to weight considerations. She has won national acclaim and considerable clout, but her more massive male colleagues resent her. The movie opens as pilot assignments for the first circumlunar flight are announced... I knew for sure that Heinlein had had a hand in the script when an astronaut of one sex (or do you say "gender?" I'm not very good at this PC stuff at all) threatens to spank an astronaut of the opposite gender. This occurs all the time in RAH's prose fiction. Reviewing *Time Trax*: "In this future | Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey police have gotten more technical, | Fermilab computers have gotten much smaller, | Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET criminals have become much cleverer, | Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET and matte painters | SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS have lost the secrets of their ancestors." --Mark Leeper ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 19:56:47 GMT From: Jon Leech Subject: Space FAQ 05/15 - References Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.answers,news.answers Archive-name: space/references Last-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:21 $ REFERENCES ON SPECIFIC AREAS PUBLISHERS OF SPACE/ASTRONOMY MATERIAL Astronomical Society of the Pacific 1290 24th Avenue San Francisco, CA 94122 More expensive but better organized slide sets. Cambridge University Press 32 East 57th Street New York, NY 10022 Crawford-Peters Aeronautica P.O. Box 152528 San Diego, CA 92115 (619) 287-3933 An excellent source of all kinds of space publications. They publish a number of catalogs, including: Aviation and Space, 1945-1962 Aviation and Space, 1962-1990 Space and Related Titles European Southern Observatory Information and Photographic Service Dr R.M. West Karl Scharzschild Strasse 2 D-8046 Garching bei Munchen FRG Slide sets, posters, photographs, conference proceedings. Finley Holiday Film Corporation 12607 East Philadelphia Street Whittier, California 90601 (213)945-3325 (800)FILMS-07 Wide selection of Apollo, Shuttle, Viking, and Voyager slides at ~50 cents/slide. Call for a catalog. Hansen Planetarium (Utah) Said to hold sales on old slide sets. Look in Sky & Telescope for contact info. Lunar and Planetary Institute 3303 NASA Road One Houston, TX 77058-4399 Technical, geology-oriented slide sets, with supporting booklets. John Wiley & Sons 605 Third Avenue New York, NY 10158-0012 Sky Publishing Corporation PO Box 9111 Belmont, MA 02178-9111 Offers "Sky Catalogue 2000.0" on PC floppy with information (including parallax) for 45000 stars. Roger Wheate Geography Dept. University of Calgary, Alberta Canada T2N 1N4 (403)-220-4892 (403)-282-7298 (FAX) wheate@uncamult.bitnet Offers a 40-slide set called "Mapping the Planets" illustrating recent work in planetary cartography, comes with a booklet and information on getting your own copies of the maps. $50 Canadian, shipping included. Superintendent of Documents US Government Printing Office Washington, DC 20402 Univelt, Inc. P. O. Box 28130 San Diego, Ca. 92128 Publishers for the American Astronomical Society. US Naval Observatory 202-653-1079 (USNO Bulletin Board via modem) 202-653-1507 General Willmann-Bell P.O. Box 35025 Richmond, Virginia 23235 USA (804)-320-7016 9-5 EST M-F CAREERS IN THE SPACE INDUSTRY In 1990 the Princeton Planetary Society published the first edition of "Space Jobs: The Guide to Careers in Space-Related Fields." The publication was enormously successful: we distributed 2000 copies to space enthusiasts across the country and even sent a few to people in Great Britain, Australia, and Ecuador. Due to the tremendous response to the first edition, PPS has published an expanded, up-to-date second edition of the guide. The 40-page publication boasts 69 listings for summer and full-time job opportunities as well as graduate school programs. The second edition of "Space Jobs" features strategies for entering the space field and describes positions at consulting and engineering firms, NASA, and non-profit organizations. The expanded special section on graduate schools highlights a myriad of programs ranging from space manufacturing to space policy. Additional sections include tips on becoming an astronaut and listings of NASA Space Grant Fellowships and Consortia, as well as NASA Centers for the Commercial Development of Space. To order send check or money order made payable to Princeton Planetary Society for $4 per copy, plus $1 per copy for shipping and handling (non-US customers send an International Money Order payable in US dollars) to: Princeton Planetary Society 315 West College Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544 DC-X SINGLE-STAGE TO ORBIT (SSTO) PROGRAM SDI's SSRT (Single Stage Rocket Technology) project has funded a suborbital technology demonstrator called DC-X that should fly in mid-1993. Further development towards an operational single-stage to orbit vehicle (called Delta Clipper) is uncertain at present. An collection of pictures and files relating to DC-X is available by anonymous FTP or email server in the directory bongo.cc.utexas.edu:pub/delta-clipper Chris W. Johnson (chrisj@emx.cc.utexas.edu) maintains the archive. HOW TO NAME A STAR AFTER A PERSON Official names are decided by committees of the International Astronomical Union, and are not for sale. There are purely commercial organizations which will, for a fee, send you pretty certificates and star maps describing where to find "your" star. These organizations have absolutely no standing in the astronomical community and the names they assign are not used by anyone else. It's also likely that you won't be able to see "your" star without binoculars or a telescope. See the back pages of Astronomy or other amateur astronomy publications for contact info; one such organization may be found at: International Star Registry 34523 Wilson Road Ingleside, IL 60041 This is not an endorsement of ISR. LLNL "GREAT EXPLORATION" The LLNL "Great Exploration", a plan for an on-the-cheap space station, Lunar base, and Mars mission using inflatable space structures, excited a lot of interest on the net and still comes up from time to time. Some references cited during net discussion were: Avation Week Jan 22, 1990 for an article on the overall Great Exploration NASA Assessment of the LLNL Space Exploration Proposal and LLNL Responses by Dr. Lowell Wood LLNL Doc. No. SS 90-9. Their address is: PO Box 808 Livermore, CA 94550 (the NASA authors are unknown). Briefing slides of a presentation to the NRC last December may be available. Write LLNL and ask. Conceptual Design Study for Modular Inflatable Space Structures, a final report for purchase order B098747 by ILC Dover INC. I don't know how to get this except from LLNL or ILC Dover. I don't have an address for ILC. LUNAR PROSPECTOR Lunar Exploration Inc. (LEI) is a non-profit corporation working on a privately funded lunar polar orbiter. Lunar Prospector is designed to perform a geochemical survey and search for frozen volatiles at the poles. A set of reference files describing the project is available in ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/LEI/* LUNAR SCIENCE AND ACTIVITIES Grant H Heiken, David T Vaniman, and Bevan M French (editors), "Lunar Sourcebook, A User's Guide to the Moon", Cambridge University Press 1991, ISBN 0-521-33444-6; hardcover; expensive. A one-volume encyclopedia of essentially everything known about the Moon, reviewing current knowledge in considerable depth, with copious references. Heavy emphasis on geology, but a lot more besides, including considerable discussion of past lunar missions and practical issues relevant to future mission design. *The* reference book for the Moon; all others are obsolete. Wendell Mendell (ed), "Lunar Bases and Space Activities of the 21st Century", $15. "Every serious student of lunar bases *must* have this book" - Bill Higgins. Available from: Lunar and Planetary Institute 3303 NASA Road One Houston, TX 77058-4399 If you want to order books, call (713)486-2172. Thomas A. Mutch, "Geology of the Moon: A Stratigraphic View", Princeton University Press, 1970. Information about the Lunar Orbiter missions, including maps of the coverage of the lunar nearside and farside by various Orbiters. ORBITING EARTH SATELLITE HISTORIES A list of Earth orbiting satellites (that are still in orbit) is available by anonymous FTP in: ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/FAQ/Satellites SPACECRAFT MODELS "Space in Miniature #2: Gemini" by Michael J. Mackowski 1621 Waterwood Lane, St. Louis, MO 63146 $7.50 Only 34pp but enough pictures & diagrams to interest more than just the modelling community, I feel. Marco's Miniatures of Dracut, Mass. have produced a 1/144 Skylab in an edition of 500 & a 1/48 Lunar Rover (same scale as Monogram and Revell Lunar Modules) in a similar edition. Prices are $45 for Skylab, $24 for LRV. Check with them for postage etc. I have no connection with them, but have found their service to be good and their stock of rare/old kits *is* impressive. Prices range from reasonable ($35 for Monogram 1/32 scale Apollo CSM with cutaway details) to spectacular ($145 for Airfix Vostok). Four Star Collectibles P.O. Box 658 Dracut Mass 01826, USA. (508)-957-0695. Voyager, HST, Viking, Lunar Rover etc. kits from: Lunar Models 5120 Grisham Rowlett, Texas 75088 (214)-475-4230 As reviewed by Bob Kaplow: Peter Alway's book "Scale Model Rocketry" is now available. Mine arrived in the mail earlier this week. To get your own copy, send $19.95 + $2.50 s/h ($22.45 total) to: Peter Alway 2830 Pittsfield Ann Arbor, MI 48104 The book includes information on collecting scale data, construction of scale models, and several handy tables. Appendicies include plans for 3 sport scale models, a 1:9.22 D Region Tomahawk (BT50), a 1/40 V-2 (BT60), and a 1/9.16 Aerobee 150A (BT55/60). I've only begun to study the book, but it certainly will be a valuable data source for many modellers. Most vehicles include several paragraphs of text describing the missions flown by the rocket, various specs including "NAR" engine classification, along with a dimensioned drawing, color layouts & paint pattern, and a black & white photograph. The vehicles included are the Aerobee 150A, Aerobee 300, Aerobee Hi, Arcas, Asp, Astrobee 1500, Astrobee D, Atlas Centaur, Atlas-Agena, Atlas-Score, Baby WAC, D-Region Tomahawk, Deacon Rockoon, Delta B, Delta E, Gemini-Titan II, Iris, Javelin, Juno 1, Juno 2, Little Joe 1, Little Joe 2, Mercury-Atlas, Mercury-Redstone, Nike-Apache, Nike-Asp, Nike-Cajun, Nike-Deacon, Nike-Tomahawk, RAM B, Saturn 1 Block 1, Saturn 1 Block 2, Saturn 1B, Saturn 5, Scout, Standard Aerobee, Terrapin, Thor-Able, Titan III C, Titan III E, Trailblazer 1, V-2, Vanguard, Viking Model 1, Viking Model 2, and Wac Corporal. ROCKET PROPULSION George P. Sutton, "Rocket Propulsion Elements", 5th edn, Wiley-Interscience 1986, ISBN 0-471-80027-9. Pricey textbook. The best (nearly the only) modern introduction to the technical side of rocketry. A good place to start if you want to know the details. Not for the math-shy. Straight chemical rockets, essentially nothing on more advanced propulsion (although earlier editions reportedly had some coverage). Dieter K. Huzel and David H. Huang, "Design of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines", NASA SP-125. NTIS N71-29405 PC A20/MF A01 1971 461p Out of print; reproductions may be obtained through the NTIS (expensive). The complete and authoritative guide to designing liquid-fuel engines. Reference #1 in most chapters of Sutton. Heavy emphasis on practical issues, what works and what doesn't, what the typical values of the fudge factors are. Stiff reading, massive detail; written for rocket engineers by rocket engineers. SPACECRAFT DESIGN Brij N. Agrawal, "Design of Geosynchronous Spacecraft", Prentice-Hall, ISBN 0-13-200114-4. James R. Wertz ed, "Spacecraft Attitude Determination and Control", Kluwer, ISBN 90-277-1204-2. P.R.K. Chetty, "Satellite Technology and its Applications", McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-8306-9688-1. James R. Wertz and Wiley J. Larson (editors), "Space Mission Analysis and Design", Kluwer Academic Publishers (Dordrecht/Boston/London) 1991, ISBN 0-7923-0971-5 (paperback), or 0-7923-0970-7 (hardback). This looks at system-level design of a spacecraft, rather than detailed design. 23 chapters, 4 appendices, about 430 pages. It leads the reader through the mission design and system-level design of a fictitious earth-observation satellite, to illustrate the principles that it tries to convey. Warning: although the book is chock-full of many useful reference tables, some of the numbers in at least one of those tables (launch costs for various launchers) appear to be quite wrong. Can be ordered by telephone, using a credit card; Kluwer's phone number is (617)-871-6600. Cost $34.50. ESOTERIC PROPULSION SCHEMES (SOLAR SAILS, LASERS, FUSION...) This needs more and more up-to-date references, but it's a start. ANTIMATTER: "Antiproton Annihilation Propulsion", Robert Forward AFRPL TR-85-034 from the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory (AFRPL/XRX, Stop 24, Edwards Air Force Base, CA 93523-5000). NTIS AD-A160 734/0 PC A10/MF A01 PC => Paper copy, A10 => $US57.90 -- or maybe Price Code? MF => MicroFiche, A01 => $US13.90 Technical study on making, holding, and using antimatter for near-term (30-50 years) propulsion systems. Excellent bibliography. Forward is the best-known proponent of antimatter. This also may be available as UDR-TR-85-55 from the contractor, the University of Dayton Research Institute, and DTIC AD-A160 from the Defense Technical Information Center, Defense Logistics Agency, Cameron Station, Alexandria, VA 22304-6145. And it's also available from the NTIS, with yet another number. "Advanced Space Propulsion Study, Antiproton and Beamed Power Propulsion", Robert Forward AFAL TR-87-070 from the Air Force Astronautics Laboratory, DTIC #AD-A189 218. NTIS AD-A189 218/1 PC A10/MF A01 Summarizes the previous paper, goes into detail on beamed power systems including " 1) pellet, microwave, and laser beamed power systems for intersteller transport; 2) a design for a near-relativistic laser-pushed lightsail using near-term laser technology; 3) a survey of laser thermal propulsion, tether transportation systems, antiproton annihilation propulsion, exotic applications of solar sails, and laser-pushed interstellar lightsails; 4) the status of antiproton annihilation propulsion as of 1986; and 5) the prospects for obtaining antimatter ions heavier than antiprotons." Again, there is an extensive bibliography. "Application of Antimatter - Electric Power to Interstellar Propulsion", G. D. Nordley, JBIS Interstellar Studies issue of 6/90. BUSSARD RAMJETS AND RELATED METHODS: G. L. Matloff and A. J. Fennelly, "Interstellar Applications and Limitations of Several Electrostatic/Electromagnetic Ion Collection Techniques", JBIS 30 (1977):213-222 N. H. Langston, "The Erosion of Interstellar Drag Screens", JBIS 26 (1973): 481-484 C. Powell, "Flight Dynamics of the Ram-Augmented Interstellar Rocket", JBIS 28 (1975):553-562 A. R. Martin, "The Effects of Drag on Relativistic Spacefight", JBIS 25 (1972):643-652 FUSION: "A Laser Fusion Rocket for Interplanetary Propulsion", Roderick Hyde, LLNL report UCRL-88857. (Contact the Technical Information Dept. at Livermore) Fusion Pellet design: Fuel selection. Energy loss mechanisms. Pellet compression metrics. Thrust Chamber: Magnetic nozzle. Shielding. Tritium breeding. Thermal modeling. Fusion Driver (lasers, particle beams, etc): Heat rejection. Vehicle Summary: Mass estimates. Vehicle Performance: Interstellar travel required exhaust velocities at the limit of fusion's capability. Interplanetary missions are limited by power/weight ratio. Trajectory modeling. Typical mission profiles. References, including the 1978 report in JBIS, "Project Daedalus", and several on ICF and driver technology. "Fusion as Electric Propulsion", Robert W. Bussard, Journal of Propulsion and Power, Vol. 6, No. 5, Sept.-Oct. 1990 Fusion rocket engines are analyzed as electric propulsion systems, with propulsion thrust-power-input-power ratio (the thrust-power "gain" G(t)) much greater than unity. Gain values of conventional (solar, fission) electric propulsion systems are always quite small (e.g., G(t)<0.8). With these, "high-thrust" interplanetary flight is not possible, because system acceleration (a(t)) capabilities are always less than the local gravitational acceleration. In contrast, gain values 50-100 times higher are found for some fusion concepts, which offer "high-thrust" flight capability. One performance example shows a 53.3 day (34.4 powered; 18.9 coast), one-way transit time with 19% payload for a single-stage Earth/Mars vehicle. Another shows the potential for high acceleration (a(t)=0.55g(o)) flight in Earth/moon space. "The QED Engine System: Direct Electric Fusion-Powered Systems for Aerospace Flight Propulsion" by Robert W. Bussard, EMC2-1190-03, available from Energy/Matter Conversion Corp., 9100 A. Center Street, Manassas, VA 22110. [This is an introduction to the application of Bussard's version of the Farnsworth/Hirsch electrostatic confinement fusion technology to propulsion. 1500 Subject: Status of U.S./Soviet Cooperation Newsgroups: sci.space In article szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes: >Why aren't we using Proton and Soyuz to launch >new industries like DBS and phone cell sats? Because we've got >a bunch of people who care about job security more than they care >about developing space or encouraging a free market. Hmmm...'free market' here seems to mean using Russian government subsidized rockets, as opposed to American government subsidized rockets. Where does the term 'free' come in here? >We've got >dinosaurs like Atlas blowing up our payloads, and we spend over >$1 billion a mission to launch our astronauts, because we're so >damned self-centered. Ah. In addition to the above definition, 'free' seems also to mean using Russian dinosaur launchers instead of American dinosaur launchers. Still don't quite see where the term 'free' comes in. And, FYI, don't believe everything Edward V. Wright posts; expensive as it may be, Shuttle launches are well under a billion a launch. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 408 ------------------------------